S3 E3 Sean Connor: The Courage to Face My Pain

Welcome to the 3rd season. In this series I’ll be talking about finding & healing the root cause of our suffering. Understanding what happened inside of us as a result of our trauma and working with primary pain, so that we can finally heal and be free from the pain of our past. 

This episode is about courage and bravery. The courage to face ourselves, the bravery to change and knowing that it is never too late to do it. 

Today I'll be talking to Sean. 
Sean was manager of some of Ireland's most prominent clubs . He is a UEFA Pro Licence coach and the founder of Mind Aware. He speaks openly about his emotional wounds as a young footballer and how this led to one simple decision that would forever direct his life. 
This is a fascinating insight into the world of professional football, toxic masculinity, core emotional wounds and the bravery to face it all and change. 

I believe that we all have the ability to heal ourselves from within. It is my mission to show you how. It is my hope that these conversations go some way to help you on your own journey, so let's begin.

With Love and Positivity Always

Shauna X

Transcript

Unknown: 0:21

Hello there, and welcome. This is series three, episode three. This is healing glass, the podcast where we, as you know by now talk about the things that matter. Talk about the things that matter there are healing journeys, talk about what it takes to heal, how we can transform and how we can move forward in our lives. So this is episode three and Episode Three is with the wonderful lovely Sean Conner, Sean and I have known each other for a long time feels like a lifetime. And I have encouraged, begged, pleaded, invaded, sure, although this podcast because I know the value that it'll bring. So today we are going to talk about, I'm going to talk about the the wounded parts of ourselves that get trapped in often what is our teenage years, why we're not aware of the wounded parts of ourselves and how they navigate and how they direct and dictate and puppeteer, who we become in this world and how we interact with others. And how the very, very hard de change that on do that unless you bring self awareness to it. And once you bring self awareness to that, then the transformation begins. And that's certainly Shawn story. So Shawn story is a for me an inspirational story, and continues to be an inspirational story, I think. And what you'll see in this podcast is his level of honesty, and vulnerability, and willingness to learn and grow and develop as a human being. And as a coach. And Shawn, I'll explain that in a minute, is tremendous. And certainly, I know that we are all in this world of influence and influence errs, who peddle toxic masculinity. And what you'll see here is the antidote to that I think and feel. So this podcast is a very important podcast, I'm raising three boys, it's a really important broadcast for all sorts of things. But I hope what you get out of it is the the power of self awareness, the power of transformation, and how we can heal the past and move forward in a really lovely way. And Shawn shares that journey with us. So, Shawn has many accolades, and I will definitely get them wrong. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to hand over and I want to get you on the under juice himself from a professional point of view first, and then we're going to jump on and when he began the questions about how he started his career, but I want Shawn, if you can tell him because I'm going to mess that up. If you tell them your name and your professional standards. I'm Shauna and yes, you're right, your budget me to come on this. And I think initially, I didn't really think I had a story to tell or believe that I could be of any help. I remember telling you that. And it's only since we've been working together over the last couple of months that maybe I do, and I see that I have a story to tell. So yes, I'm a I'm a UEFA pro licence coach since 2007. I was the first coach manager to get that award and the League of Ireland. Since then, I've subsequently moved on the manager, a number of teams in the league of Ireland, the Irish League, and two teams in Africa, namely in Zimbabwe and South Africa. So I've got a very weighed coaching experience, and then one on my return to South Africa from South Africa. But 2014 That's when we started working together because I started working at Paedon city, I started coaching after that, I went back to university, completed a B hits a BSc and sports coaching and then a master's in sports psychology. And I suppose Shawn, it was only really from doing that work that I began to realise maybe I needed to not change myself as not as as a technical coach, and I'll explain this to even changed myself as a person as a personal coach. I love the quote. I'm gonna put that on my CV. I'm the antidote to toxic masculinity. I love it. Yes, I will not go down that rabbit hole, down that rabbit hole. We will be there forever. But what I will want to swiftly move on to because I think when we move on to your story, and we and we start to dissect the story, I think that the level of Your ability and self awareness is the antidote to toxic masculinity. Absolutely. As Oh, listen, I, when you use the phrase I understand I understood the phrase perfectly. Four years ago, three years ago, even two years ago, I could never hear myself saying that about myself, because I believe I was the complete opposite. Yeah, imagine. So we start there, we started the beginning of your career start at you played across the water. So you were you were Belfast born? Isn't that right? Yeah, Belfast went to St. Mary's grammar school, studying from a levels I can't quite remember how it came about. But I had an opportunity to go actually had two opportunities to want to go to the University of San Francisco on a full scholarship. Or go on trial for a period of time with Portville. I ended up staying at Port Vale for approximately what six months and went out on loan after that, a couple of clubs. So it was over. And I was really on that escapada a year to just over a year. Field field because at the time, I didn't know, yeah, at the time, I felt that fields. But I remember going into the environment that apps failed because I had a real lack of confidence. And I understood that it's the real that were young Belfast boy. And I was taken out of an environment where I was playing football at distillery, I was playing Gaelic football for St. John's, and I was a young player and everybody who's looking after me and looking out for me. And suddenly, and even in my own family, you know, I've never, I don't think at that stage, I've never met a person who had tried to be nice to me for doing something that wasn't particularly good for me. And suddenly, you're thrown into this professional environment. And you're looking around you. And it's only upon reflecting that you realise that there's players there who I probably was as good as, but I got really nervous, got really insular. And they taught them much better game than me. I became friendly with one of the players Robbie around and I remember just chatting to him one time because you wouldn't open up about stuff like this, you wouldn't. And this was back in the days when we had your boss and stuff after the match. So it really was a masculine environment. It was a there was a big boss, it was individual boss, you know, and then on the bunker, and then the humour within that area was was tough, you know, but I remember, I remember a couple of times players sand things about because I was particularly I was really quick. And I remember one players had to be auto petty didn't have a touch to go with that speed. You know, so. And when I spoke to Robbie, you know, he was explained to me look at because I said to him, Do I have a bad touch? No. And then he said, No, they're saying stuff like that, because there's a potential you if you if you get to your long term contract here, you're going to take somebody's job, somebody's place. So that's probably the time I didn't realise it. But that's the environment it was and I just didn't, I couldn't cope. Yeah. So let me stop me to the second thing because I want to reiterate what you're saying. So you come from this kind of lovely environments. Lovely as lovely can be for Belfast. But but as a gentle environment and an environment where you're encouraged and people have your back and people have your best interest to play and you're you're a fast, your your your your quick as you say you're fast and yeah, and that's encouraged. And then you go to this place, where there's all sorts of skullduggery, there's all sorts of stuff that's not sad, the weekend East off that's, but it's not authentic and genuine and, and you're confused. And you're watching these other people who are much more confidence, who have much more sense of themselves, and you're listening to the jibes that the things that they're saying, and you're a believer, and then then you're reaching out to try and make sense of it all. But you're confused. I mean, it must have been a really difficult place to be. Yeah, well, you get to the stage where you, you don't really enjoy going to a trainer, and that's why you're there and you're certainly you don't enjoy matches. You know, I remember plan Mecca was lucky enough to play away at St. James's Park and places like that. And going up there on the bus, I hated it going. I think the only regret a respite I actually got was when you're on the pitch plan. Because once the team was practically replan again, it wasn't as bad it was more around the training ground around that the day to day contact. And let's face it, you know, you're training every day you only play a match once, once once a week, and if you're in the reserve team, it's it's a midweek match and that's it until the next midweek. So it was that that was difficult. And yet you know, it's funny because as we all know, Belfast and grown up in Belfast and in the 80s as a teenager was was right in the middle of the troubles but your home environment, your home life, the people around It just was correct. It was like, everybody wanted the best for me. Or at least that's what I appreciate. And suddenly you go to this environment where not everybody wants the best for you. I had a really good relationship with the manager. And I remember at the time when I was gonna leave it, he wanted me to stay. And he wanted me just to stay another couple of months. And I said, No. And I met him years later, because he ended up scouting for him. And he always that we were having a conversation with him. He said to me, Well, why don't you sort of stay for those couple months? And I went, Well, I says, Why did you leave? Why did you really offer me another six months? Why didn't you give me two years? And then he explained to me and I was a manager at this time. So the agalloch He said, Shawn, you know, there was people that cheered him, he wanted me out as manager, we were having a bad time. And I was told by the board that they couldn't handle any new contracts only, only short contract extensions. And he says, I was just asking you, he says, If I told you that, you said that to the wrong person. So they use the other show, and it made me realise that that's the environment you're in. Yes, people are looking for weaknesses. People are looking for a weak chink in your armour that they can exploit. You're exposed to that. And the word we're going to use his damage, it's, you know, but what did that do to you, we talk in the clear method, about defining moments, we talk in the clear and method about about these core woundedness and core infiltrator begin the we become because of these experiences. What did that do to you? Do you think? Well, what did that mean? Start? Probably a year after leaving there. I remember just sitting one day and thinking, right, that's it. I'm never gonna feel again, for lack of confidence in my older building. I'm never gonna let anyone see or have any self doubt. Any, and that was like a lightbulb. Bang. That's, that's, that's the answer to this problem here. That's me. And then as I come into my managerial career, and other things, people find me arrogant. Yes, not open. And I wasn't like that. I was like that in my work environment, because I believed I had to be like that. But the more you be like that, Shauna, it's easier to stay like that and try and change. Ryan, stop there. There's so much goodness in that piece there lock, quick stop there, we second us just gold dust. So you're obviously released your sovereign, you're in pain. And you make a decision. I will never fail again, for lack of competence, because you the feelings that you had from the failure was obviously dying, because obviously difficult. And your if you had seen that as a failure, and you said to yourself, never will I feel duty, a lack of confidence, because that's what you saw your that happened. And that's what you saw you were feeling is that right? And a very conscious decision. very lucid, very clear, I like to think I'm sort of well articulated, well thought out. Yep. That's it. That's what I have to do. And so just before we move on, the feelings that you were feeling, because this is where we don't do toxic masculinity. This is where we, we, you know, this is where we open up the idea that we're all human beings, and we've all got difficult feelings within us. What was the feelings that you were feeling prior to that decision? Do you remember? Yeah, felt you feel, you just feel if you feel one of your biggest ambitions, you haven't achieved that. You feel lost, you feel inadequate? And then you have to you snapped, I snapped out of it and says, No, I have to take I have to take control of this. And it's like, what man up? No, I have to man up. I have to re pass it back. So that's the decision. So it's an inadequacy. It's a failure. It's a lesson lithological feeling and then it's no, I will talk about where that level of control comes from. I know email, right? Yeah, but it's not I'm gonna, I'm gonna direct this. Because I like that. I'm in full control here of everything. And I will never let anyone else see a chunk of doubt. And if I make a decision, even if it's a time to probably made decisions, and I've knew that were wrong, I would never admit, I was right. I was right. And you had day because this was the armour that would ruin the woundedness from those moments in those in that failure that you're gonna look back now as we've worked together. I felt I had to 100% I felt I had to, and maybe Shawn, or maybe at that time, maybe in the maybe the environment softened slightly, but certainly back then I really felt no, this is the only way that I I wasn't I wasn't nationally succeeding, I was more of a protecting myself. I love that. I love the honesty of that. In our work, we call it trauma Choices, choices we make from the traumas that we've had. No, I know that some people would say that that wasn't trauma, but anything that affects you anything that changes your understanding of yourself, anything that works, your belief in yourself or the world around you has trauma. So you've had this experience, where it changed how you viewed yourself, you viewed yourself as inadequate and failure, that's trauma. So from that trauma, you make a choice. Because there's no other way, I will never be in that place. Again, I will never let anybody see don't shoot me Thermacore at what, 19 years of age, and then you dress for a couple of years until you get into coaching. So yeah, in the minute I get, you know, right. That's it. Never again, I'll fake it till you make it. Brilliant. So I'm going to I'm going to present myself as this confident, strong, no doubt human being knowing some of the work that we did. And I know you'll not mind me introducing this, some of the work she said was a was about leadership, and some of the how you lose. And what was incredible about our work was that we discovered your leadership, as in the south leadership, not how you lead others, how you lead yourself, that you will be what we would call a director, a natural controlling director. give instructions short and sharp, you know, you've been a natural analytical person see the detail? Yeah. So if we, if we see that, and it's just just for our audience. You've made a decision and from your personality style, from your leadership style, you directed yourself? Yes, the insurance that that was locked down, and everybody only ever saw the confidential income 100%. And it was only through when we started working. And we started and I started reflected. I think I talked I believe to this day that technically, as a as a soccer coach. I'm good. Leaving other people giving other people advice, I think I'm good. One I was really proud was leaving myself and actually admitting to myself that you know what, you're closed, you're not letting people in, especially the people above me. My problem was always managing that because they were the threat. They were the people that had the party, take away my job. So therefore, I had to keep them at a distance. I had to be arrogant. I had to be forceful. I had to be all I had to be unbreakable. So that they had never I need to make a difference. Yeah, I've worked at certainly worked on my early part of my career. No, I'm not an amazing clubs that managed some big clubs, Bohemian Sligo, rovers don't talk. But over time, when you when I remember talking to a friend was and he said, Shawn, you know, I've worked with you, you're really good. You know, people find it difficult to work with. And, and she said to me, like I go in for an interview, and she had helped me get it will not tell you what trouble was. And basically, she had said to me, Listen, you turn up there, be yourself, you'll be fine. You've got the job. So I got home that night. And she phoned me up and asked for your experience. What have you done? What did you say? I said, What do you mean? And she says, He doesn't want to give you the job, because he said, You were so arrogant. And he says, if he's that arrogant in the interview, what's he going to be like when you're when he's got the job? So that's when you start to realise what Hold on a second? Well, as in the work that we've done, as you know, I find if I think you have no information that can help me or I don't think you're authoritative, or I don't think you're directive, I dismiss you very quickly. And we would have had the type of relationship that I would have been able to be very straight and direct Wii U, which you find you saw. We saw some, you saw something in there. It's sort of you know, it's almost like looking at Amara because I see myself coming back. So I if you're a farmer, if you're a farmer direct with me, I'm blunt. Yeah, I can take it. Yeah, I can take it because you've layered. I want to go back to something before we go on to this. Because there's so many directions. But I want to go back to something you said there and you said in that moment when you arrived for that job, and you screw it up. Your Oregon screws it up. There is a moment there. Where the choice that you made, it's such an early age So at this stage, I mean, you're carrying that choice for 2020 30 years, right? Yeah. So you're 30 years, and most people that listen to this will be acting out of a piece of trauma, a piece of woundedness for 3040 50 years, this isn't uncommon, right? So you have a time where you've been rejected from a job because your organs, but that are against was a decision from a piece of trauma. And all of a sudden, you have to look at it. You have the questions, you have the start to cancer. Is this working for me? That's the moment where this armour starts to Cana. And Charlotte when when I got that message, my reaction was Hold on a second. That arrogance has got me worried I'm that arrogance helped me win the first division. And our arrogance helped me get to troops into Europe. At that stage, I did not see that still is the problem. No, he's a problem. Yes, because everybody else was the problem. And it's probably that was that was two, three years ago. And it's only really in the last 18 months that I've thought Now hold on a second. Maybe they're maybe they're not the problem. Maybe they're not the problem, maybe. Maybe I need to adjust, maybe. And listen, that was through a chance conversation that we had. Because as I always said, You're very good at pecking away at me and make me go away and think and sound the right things and sound in such a way that it wasn't offensive, which I think is very difficult to do. But you're very good at it. And since we've worked together, you've I feel I've opened up and as you said at the start, you asked me to do this a long time ago. And I was like, No, and I don't really have a story to tell. But I think I think let's pause there because there's so many not so many, I mean nuggets and like you're saying, there was something about our relationship that let me hold a mirror up to you and let you see yourself. There was like when I say relationship, it wasn't like we were in each other's pockets, we would have a chance to meet and hear conversation there. But we weren't, you know, we weren't in constant communication, but no communication, I would have been letting you see yourself challenging me, you know, having having very direct conversations with you. But there's something in that marine of you that you began to see yourself and you began the salt softens the wrong word. It's a very, it's a very particular stage of process when you stop blaming other people, when you stop pointing out the words, and you start the point of noise. And you start to say, what part of this is mine? What do I need to change? What do I need, you know that in of itself, Shawn, have been planted people walk listening to this, watching this, that is a monumental thing to do. Because the minute you start to look at yourself, then it's nobody else's responsibility, but yours. And that's the big, big steps. Well, as you know, the big step for me was, as you know, I have a column with the dairy journal and the newsletter. And I think, six weeks ago, I wrote about this change, and why I was looking at this changing and researching for that actually, I came across a lovely quote from from Buddha. And I thought, No, this is perfect. And it says, Know what, look what holds, you know, what holds you back, and know what leads you forward and choose the path of wisdom. And I thought, that's the workout after I realised what's been holding me back. I know what can lead me forward. And that's wisdom. And so it's okay, I think, if anybody's listened to this, I'd be saying, it's really, really cathartic to accept your mistakes, to know that just because you've been doing something for so long as it's become almost retain, if it's holding you back, you have to abandon it. You have to look at the things that reinforce you that show the bravery of you determine ROI after 30 years of living this way being armoured up to the teeth with you know a toxic kind of false sense of self and all the means of aim you know trying to protect yourself from being hurt again like that we 19 year old we boy the bravery, the sheer bravery to say hold on. This doesn't work and I'm not going to blame anybody else. Let me have a look at myself. And just so happens a weird relationship that I supported that look at yourself. Let me have a look at myself. Let me have a look with an and let me own my choices. Let me own let me all my mistakes. Let me only intricacies of the that's so brave. It's not only brave to do so brave to talk about in this environment because there'll be no Not many that that would do would be that brave. Now we have our podcast is filled with people who are brave like you. That's why you're on the show, you're on the show, because you're brave, you're looking towards yourself. And you'll give that that's amazingly brave to say that and they say, and I'm willing to make mistakes, and I'm willing to change. Yeah, well, I think I realised that I'm at the stage where I think I've probably got one or two big jobs after me. And through our talks, and through just self reflection, I realised, you know, unless he ends, I'm not going to get the opportunity to do these big jobs on the show. And I think I've chances as a coach and as a leader since back to university, because up until then, all my all my education in terms of coaching was done through the AFA. Other coaching courses, going to visit clubs, meet other managers, all within that environment. The minute I stepped out of that environment and looked at coaching, academically, I looked at coach coaching as a pedagogy looked at leadership, looking to psychology around that, I realised, yeah, no, I'm not as good as they think I am. And I need to change. We second show, just what you've said, proves that that armour is broken, you would have never been able to match that you weren't as good as you thought you were back at 19. Because that armour was too, it was too much of a risk, it was too much of a difficulty. Just what you've done there knowing the See, I not as good as I think I am, and I want to develop and lead shows you are wanting to lead myself differently, shows me that Armour has broken because you would never be able to say that live on a podcast like this, if that inner journey had never happened. This is the power of healing. This is the power of healing that the trauma pieces that we hold. The important thing is well, I realised that you know, even if I don't get the job that I'm after, I'm gonna be a far better person to be around. So that's gonna be and I believe least that's the success that I can take on. And I'm happy with it. And I just hope I do get the opportunity because I think I'm so much be so much better than what I was, you know, I was funny to me with the transformation, because what we just remember the lesson and what we've done there is we've walked through the problem where the problem came from, we walk through the trauma choices, we walk through the shop and dine, we walk through the am this way. And that's the and then we've walked through that, okay, awareness and common bacteria and the healing of it. And then this new new way of loving this new way of interacting with people this new way of leading. So where are we knowing? Well, I've, I'm at the stage and I were I think I remember who I said do you have a very clear vision of her was manager for popular par with football club. And before this, that vision would have been made tunnel vision. That's it. This is how we're doing it, no deviating. Whereas now I think a couple weeks ago, I said you I still have that vision. But what I what I want to do is I want to make others part of the vision, I want to make their vision, and I want to share the vision. And I think it was a lovely thing from Nelson Mandela. And I put this in the article that it was better, it's better to lead from behind and put others in front, especially in moments of success and victory. And as a real leader, you only step out when there's danger. So in the past, I would have been quite good in the media or was in the media and you want to say to get in the papers. Whereas now I think it's not just a boat. It's not a boat me Yes, as a manager, as a coach, you have to have a vision have some standards. But everybody has to be a part of it. Everybody has to get their piece of the jigsaw. And it's only when you do that. And in fact, my coaching philosophy document there's no near as no cheers. Totally. And it's nice title harmony towards victory. So I believe that you only you will only be truly harmonious as a team as an organisation as a group, when everybody fits part of it. When everybody has it has a decision to make. And when everybody has that has that autonomy as well within that within that vision. And that's that's the big transformation. For me. That's a word away. That's a world away from how you would have laid on the Lombardi time. Love Lombardi Lombardi times the personal that's another podcast, that's another podcast and so so that's where you are personal professional, where are you personally? Personally I'm my feeling of self worth is still probably like a lot of people's is associated with their work. So if you're not working, you don't remember yourself. officeteam can be loyal. And they'll be days when myself seems really though, there'll be days like that this is a really good exercise for maplelea I'm, I'm I failed after this, I'll go and reflect, have a cup of coffee, and I'll feel good. So there's some days, I don't feel great, but I've got my newspaper columns, I've got a couple of projects that I'm trying to work on, I'm working with a couple of individual players and people like that. So that keeps me busy. But Joe, I have all this, of all this new stuff to give out, and I would just want to be able to give it out to people, you know, and I think I've always been directions how you, miss, I missed, you know, what, I am a very, I like people. I like the interaction of people. And one of the and part of this process where reflected out, you know, with, with, with my players with a group of players, was totally different on the person who phoned me up about losing their job, you know, she goes home and say, who's my players, my players? What, what I realise now is that the relationship I had with players was excellent. The relationship I had with my superiors, the people who could harm me more was, because with it with the players, I was in full control, I wasn't in a danger, the danger came from above, whereas my, I want to work and embrace everybody. And I believe, if I go to my superiors, I go to the people who have worked for and say, Look, I need help with this, I need help with that, that won't be seen as a witness, beautiful lady. And that, because what you're saying is you've come a full circle, and you're saying, not only are you able to own when you don't feel great about yourself, and not armour up, but you're also able to own when you make all those who are your superiors that even that language because you wouldn't ever see them as superior in the past, though, you know, the conversations we've had. So that's why that was never happened. And there was nobody more superior than you. And that was just the lack for conversation shows the depth of change. And even that you and then you take that one step further, you're going to them, they ask for help. I mean, that armour is no more we look at it in those in those ways. It's gone, it's gone. And the good thing about it is, I feel good about it, I don't feel vulnerable. So the fact that I don't feel vulnerable, is a very comfortable position to but I failed. I think as humans, we're programmed to do what's comfortable. But I think for real change and real success, we have to go to where it's uncomfortable. And right now, I'm on, I'm comfortable being uncomfortable, if that's where that's so powerful chi, it's so powerful for anybody listening to this, that, that has positions of huge responsibility that have big media profiles, that has, you know, have had this to your career. Phenomenal, your your success is phenomenal. I think what you've just done, I mean, it's actually really heartwarming that I could cry, honestly, like what you've done, not only for yourself, but for antibody less, none of this is incredible. You know, that you can portray yourself for X amount of years, and in a way, but all of that can be broken down. And you have to really get trust, real and true to yourself, and really uncomfortable. And the growth that comes from that place is magical. It's just as good. For example, it's not easy to get there. And I'm not gonna deny it say that there was days when I thought no, I can't do that I can't, I've gotta Well, eventually, if you persevere, I think if you've stick to the right people, and that's very important, as well as one of that, I think you have to be very selective with who you open up with at first. Because if you open up with the wrong person, I think if I hadn't opened up with you, I could have very quickly gone back. But I think you have to meet the right person. And then once you once you get feel that safely to be and say what you want to say, it makes it easy to do with other people. And as you know, I'm sort of every time every time I come into contact with person, I'm trying to see what sort of professional they are, and then understand. I need to pull back my directness and my analytical side bit but softer, and listen. And I'm doing all that. And sometimes when you come away from interactions with people, you feel quite nice. Yes. Isn't that lovely? I think I'm going to leave that there because that's just that's just heartwarming, the last one day and especially a man in your possession, a man that has held. So, you know, this held such a strong stance of himself and has been held in the media and I mean, there's who doesn't know Ischgl? So he doesn't know who wants to hopefully get the new eat better, you know, in the coming years. Thanks, Shauna. As we've discussed this, a lot of people know, the armoured version, the armoured version, they don't know me, you know, and I'm looking forward to people getting to know the new me. And I'm looking forward to that for you. But I am also looking forward to the readers of this, or the listeners of this podcast been blown away, but your honesty, but your vulnerability, especially coming from your position, I think it's easy, easier to come and do these interviews. Whenever, you know, you have a story to tell, but you have a story and a profile. And you've come at this with both the story and the profile and been vulnerable in that. And I think it's just been incredible. Thank you so much. Well, I wouldn't be here without your help. So I appreciate that. And, you know, maybe I'm kind of trying to tell the story that ultimately it'll change my profile and how people perceive me on there, or they understand me, but the most important thing, as I said, this is how I perceive and understand other people. And that's when I got out of this. That's just a big change. Absolutely brilliant. Thank you, Sean, thanks for joining us. Thank you. Pleasure.